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Discussion 1: Sep 2015 Jesus, I am so sorry for my sins. Forgive me. I repent. Thanks for dying on the cross to pay for my sins and then rising from the dead. Come into my heart. Write "AMEN" to ask Jesus to save you. ***Start a closer relationship with Jesus using our free Jesus Grow Pack at www.JesusDaily.org
TH - 15/08/30 12:37
Asking Jesus to come into your heart is good, but it shouldn't be relied upon as a means of salvation. Jesus never
promised to save an asker, He promised to save believers ... and believers don't ask Jesus to do something He's already done. :) TB - 15/08/31 04:04
Asking is inviting. Inviting a real person knocking at the door seems to indicate belief that Person is standing there.
Knocking. The choice is to open the door and let Him come in. Rev. 3:20. Remember, the Devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19 TH - 15/08/31 22:40
Belief that a Person is standing there knocking does not save. smile emoticon Asking the Person to come in also does not save. That is why there are no examples of anyone doing this in the Scripture. :) TB - 15/09/01 02:52
Splitting hairs? Maybe so. But with a topic so important it is important to have a solid understanding. Fortunately
for us, He does not require an in depth and complete understanding of all the implications. Matt. 18:3, Mark 10:15, Luke 18:17 That full
comprehension comes slowly as we grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:18 And, it will likely continue to grow
throughout all eternity. As we re-read the original post, it shows us that this individual has recognized his/her sin, and asks for forgiveness,
expresses an attitude of repentance, and acknowledges the fact of Christ's resurrection. The addition step of "inviting the Lord into the heart"
is not necessary, but like with any personal relationship, opening the figurative door of one's "heart" (inner most being) and inviting that
Person in is a good thing. Going back to Rev. 3:20, we see that picture. I believe it is a good thing to "invite" the Lord into my life and
activity each and every day. It helps me to acknowledge His Lordship in my life. My personal testimony is that I had "asked" and "invited"
the Lord into my life several times, but never really felt "saved." I "knew" and believed all the facts (head knowledge), but still was not saved
or born again. One day, while contemplating these things, I realized that I "believed" He had died for MY sins, I "accepted" the fact as truth
for ME, and it was at that moment I realized that I was saved. It was then, and remains for me the time that I point to as the dividing line of
B.C. and A.D. for me. It's probably a good thing that I cannot remember the exact date. I am so amazed with the work of the Holy Spirit in
bringing about conversion. John 3:8 comes to mind! As I continue to chew on these things, it hits me that we will never fully understand the
working of God in bringing many sons to glory Hebrews 2:10 I know of one group of people who teach that in order to be saved one must
believe in the heart, AND confess with the mouth. Using Romans 10:9-10, they push people to make a public confession. And some who
have made that public confession under duress are no more saved than the chair they are sitting in. There is an article that came out a couple years ago in the magazine Christianity Today that addresses this overall topic: Should We Stop Asking Jesus to Come Into our Hearts?
. Some food for thought, and probably "strong meat", but very worthwhile the reading. TH - 15/09/03 23:31
Wow! Our testimonies are so very similar. I could not agree with you more. Salvation is definitely the work of
God, and it is both mysterious and wonderful. I try to discourage those who are not sure they are saved to do some ritual, like praying the
sinner's prayer. I just don't think that is a biblical approach to assurance. looking to the cross and seeking faith from God seems like the right move. TB - 15/09/02 17:47
Salvation is described as a "gift" (Eph. 2:8-9) A gift that is not received or accepted is of no benefit to the intended
recipient. I think that in our zeal to share that news with others, sometimes we Christians can fall into the trap of not explaining fully what the gift really is, and what it means to know that our sins are forgiven. There is the other reality of being a new creature (2 Cor. 5:17). We are born again when we "repent and believe the gospel", and we become brand new creatures because we have the Spirit of God in our lives. The gospel is simple, "…Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day
according to the scriptures…"(1 Cor. 15:3-4) But Paul also uses the words "received" & "believe", and refers to himself as having
"received". I don't have a problem telling people that they need to receive or accept the gift, and that act may be accompanied by the
words. We must remember what Samuel recorded in 1 Sam. 16:7: "for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward
appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." We cannot see what transpires in a person's innermost being between them and God. But we can observe, and as time goes on, we can evaluate the fruits (Matt. 7:16-20) TH - 15/09/03 23:04 Awesome Comments!
Briefly for now, I would like to propose that whether a gift needs to be actively received in order to be a gift depends on the nature of the
gift itself. Consider a friend who decides to pay off all of your debt: he meets with each of your creditors and satisfies the terms of each
account and closes each one. Done. You find out about this after the fact ... and there is nothing to do but just be thankful and rejoice! smile
emoticon Trying to "receive" such a gift is to misunderstand the nature of the gift itself.
Soberly consider the implications of wrong thinking here, where a sinner is told he must "receive" the gift of God, when God's gift is really the
cancellation of a debt and an undeservable, unearnable imputation of perfect righteousness. If a sinner is told the truths of the Gospel and
claims to believe them without already being in a state complete assurance and rejoicing in a salvation that is already accomplished, then I
believe he is actually failing to understand and believe the Gospel. When we hear, "Christ died for you, now you must " ... and we add
anything at all but believe and rejoice, then I claim we are missing the whole point of the Gospel and construing and misrepresenting it
beyond recognition. Can people still "get saved" resonding to such a message? Absolutely! Is it far more likely that they will walk away still
unsaved, unregenerate, unsure, doubting, and hoping it worked this time, and in doing so really take one more step closer to Hell itself? I think so.
It should be no surprise that Billy Graham's testimony is that he has never had assurance of salvation. The mechanics of the sinners prayer
and the way we generally hear the Gospel presented are so poor and unbiblical that it really does take an act of God to save someone in the
process. And I guess this is the whole point: no one ever gets saved other than by a supernatural act of God. God will reach His elect one
way or another, but I think it behoves us to leave the lost in their unsettled and troubled condition, if that is their present testimony, and
encourage them to continue to seek faith from God until they have it. The very worst thing we can do to another human being is comfort
them with a false hope of salvation: we can stoop no lower than this. We must be prayerful, and careful, and stick with the Word -- no formulas or mechanics where the Bible gives neither direction nor example. TB - 15/09/03 23:20 Faith in Christ + nothing! Eph. 2:8-9 For by grace through faith... Surely you are not proposing that a person is saved in the same way as the
debt is paid by one's friend in your discussion. There must be an act of the will. Otherwise, everyone would be saved, simply because Christ
died. Jn 3:16 "...whosoever would (will)... and Matt 7:13-14 "Enter ye at the strait gate...", seems to indicate we have a choice. In your
discussion, you say "... it is far more likely that they will walk away still unsaved..." also indicates that you believe there is a choice to be
made, an act of the will, if you will. A very fine line for sure, but thankfully, the Holy Spirit Himself is the active agent, who "works in you
both the will and to do..." Brother, I am sure we will never be able to plumb the depths of this question, as greater minds have discussed and
disagreed on it for centuries. These days we oversimplify the discussion in terms of John Calvin & Jacobus Arminius. It is sad that some will
never get to the full realization of the blessings that come with full assurance, but does that mean they are not saved? Also sad, is that some
have assurance, but it is based on a flase foundation, i.e., their "profession" or "acceptance" of Christ's finished work. Also sad, is the case of
those who became convinced by man of the "irresistible" nature of grace, and have never repented, and have never been born again, have never been created a new creature in Christ Jesus. Yes, good discussion... TH - 15/09/04 22:35
I do think the debt illustration is legit: if an "act of the will" is not a human work then what is? And if we require a
"work" in answer to "What must I do to be saved?" we have a works-based gospel. If I said one must "believe and be baptized" it would
be more obvious; Faith + anything is all the same lie. It isn't splitting hairs … it's getting the gospel right.
"Receiving Christ" happens when one believes the good news that Christ has fully and permanently resolved their sin problem. (Is 53:11)
This state produces assurance by definition. (1Th 1:5) It's not a decision we make but a state of being, one we should seek … but we can
no more put ourselves in it by an act of our will than we can jump to the moon. Faith is a gift that moves the emotions and the will; it is not
sourced in Man. The absence of assurance is doubt by definition, lack of faith in Christ, a sure sign of unbelief.
Suggesting this view implies everyone is saved relies on a simplistic view of the atonement; once we realize Christ's death is not bound by
time we find the atonement to be effectual in actually saving all and only those who believe, yet also available to anyone who will seek God.
If the atonement is not effectual in itself we place the burden of salvation on the sinner: money in the bank won't pay our debts off. But the
Word says Christ Himself pays them (Is 53:11, He 1:3, etc.) Those who resist must turn for assurance to something other than Christ and what He has done. It is a different message with a much different effect on the soul. If you would like to add to this discussion please send me your thoughts: I will reply and record relevant and helpful comments here.
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